The Ultimate UK Cycle Route Planner

Doesn't seem to have much to do with cycling if you ask me.

perce wrote:

Doesn't seem to have much to do with cycling if you ask me.

Have you never come across the Strauss-Howe generational theory of history, better known as the four cycles?

I apologise for my part in the hijacking of the thread but I do think it's important that when such pernicious alt-right lies as "the Nazis were all socialists" raise their heads they should be challenged whatever the forum, even at the risk of derailing the discussion.

No need to apologise - I'm just off to my local ghetto to see if I can get a bottle of leftie kool-aid.

I usually just skim through his comments. Having read them properly I take your point.

There is a ridiculous article written by Peter Hitchens a Mail columnist that I believe Nigel will have read.

https://twitter.com/marshall_proEU/status/1636316829474865157?t=s2id4pm4...

I suspect he just wanted to import this into this forum as a Troll tactic to create a shitstorm.

While I sometimes agree that ridiculous arguments need to be knocked down, in this case, with his tactics so transparent, maybe it isn't worth the interaction.

PS the twitter thread kind of sums up the tactic.

mark1a wrote:

I've been busy since yesterday, have I missed anything?

Yep, very good review I thought. Added to my Christmas list.

Added to my Christmas list
Wow! That is really heavy duty patience!

Well as a proud Yorkshireman every penny in my pocket is a prisoner.

Yep, I've ordered it. Looks great

In the UK there seems to be at least 2 classes of cycle routes. One is for leisure cycling, which seems to be the main type for Sustrans. The other is put your life in someone else's hands. Neither really get you to where you want to go safely or for commuting, in a timely manner.

"notional cycle network".

As to Sustrans generally - they seem (at least near me) to have improved ... slightly.  The issues seemed to be at the top and their eagerness - nay desperation - to get their name on anything, no matter the quality.

They now talk the talk at least.  Still always keep a wary eye on their efforts though.

If you're close / friendly enough to e.g. councils to be able to influence things (as opposed to shouting ineffectively from the sidelines) there is a strong chance you'll be corrupted.  Or rather become too sympathetic to the "but we can't change things for the majority (drivers)" view".  Doing "something rather than nothing" where the "something" is actually a complete waste of money or even counterproductive.

Unsurprisingly Sustrans (not actually a cycling organisation) have often provided what is actually pedestrian infra, assuming that a few cyclists will mix in and all will be fine.  That is a common view - but effectively guarantees there won't be many cyclists.  It's not comfortable for many of either mode to mix - they have their own requirements and need their own appropriate spaces.

I dislike the tories as much as most but its an overused cheap shot for sure. We didn't live in a utopia before they gained power and I doubt we will live in one after Labour have had a few years in power either. 

Fortunately we don't have to wait that long to see what life would be like under a Labour government.

Simply cast your eyes westward past Offa's Dyke and gaze in wonder at the socialist utopia.

The NHS is working perfectly, the education system continues to climb world rankings, roads are perfectly maintained and the people are joyful.

Alternatively, health, education and virtually all public services are objectively worse.

Stevenson won't let inconvenient facts get in the way of his little rants though.

Rich_cb wrote:

Stevenson won't let inconvenient facts get in the way of his little rants though.

You certainly haven't let the inconvenient fact of Wales' budget allocation being cut by £1.6 billion (22%) in real terms by the UK government get in the way of yours.

Rich_cb wrote:

Simply cast your eyes westward past Offa's Dyke and gaze in wonder at the socialist utopia.

It may be very far from perfect - like every administration, ever - but the Welsh government has, within the restrictions placed by Westminster, attempted positive steps that those Tory bastards in London would never even contemplate.

But since you have repeatedly voted for the most despicable bunch of incompetent, law-breaking, moneygrabbing shysters, grifters and morons in living memory AND the worst economic & political decision that anyone can think of you really don't have a leg to stand on.

However, I agree with Dadams7378 that the laughable provision of cycling infrastructure in the UK is not just the Tories' fault. Mind you, the recent cut to the active travel budget (cause for celebration among Tories and gammons everywhere) is yet another blow to any hopes of getting anything done. Funny how there's lots of money for guns and bombs and £27 billion for new roads, most of which will only make things worse, but people who want to cycle can get into arguments on a measly shared path or be directed miles out of their way down some shitty lane.

Such as?

Don't fall for the recent road building announcement.

Half the schemes will go ahead under a different mechanism and the Welsh Government are already backtracking furiously on the overall idea.

They've also recently slashed bus funding and have announced they will not be matching the free child care recently announced for England.

You might not like the Conservatives but try living under the alternative. Worse public services compared to England despite higher levels of funding.

Why on earth should I vote for Labour when that is what they've been delivering to Wales for over 25 years?

Rich_cb wrote:

Don't fall for the recent road building announcement.

I'm not talking about that.

If you want to talk bus funding then Shropshire (in England) is a not-so-fine example, public services cut and cut and cut, bus services run down over the last decade or more by a Conservative-led administration that reeks of corruption and is, to cite just one example, desperate to build a £100million+ road for which they don't have the money and can't justify it.

Rich_cb wrote:

You might not like the Conservatives but try living under the alternative.

I've lived under the alternative and stand by my assertion. None of the alternatives are anywhere near as shit as the Tories. The Thatcher/Major years were shitty enough but this lot are far worse. Perhaps all the so-called austerity measures, countless scandals, bare-faced lies, privatisation and accompanying hatchet job on public services, culture wars, food banks, bonfire of employment rights and human rights etc don't bother you but we've not had anything this bad since before WW II. Perhaps 1930s-style policies (and pandering to the far-right) is working out better for you than for the rest of us.

Here come the tired 1930s tropes.

Read a history book.

Seriously.

If you think a country which welcomed 1/2 million immigrants last year from mostly non white countries, which has a Prime minister from an ethnic minority and the most diverse and representative cabinet in Europe is in anyway similar to the far right regimes of the 1930s then you're merely demonstrating your own ignorance of history.

I live in Wales, we've had a Labour government since 1997.
The NHS is markedly worse than the English NHS.
The education system likewise.
There is no additional support for childcare costs here.

This is all despite funding being 20% higher per head of population.

Why would I not vote for a Conservative party that is doing a better job of delivering public services with significantly fewer resources?

Welsh Labour are incompetent, complacent and, in many cases, corrupt.

Rich_cb wrote:

Here come the tired 1930s tropes.

Sorry to burst your bubble but they're not 'tired' at all.

Rich_cb wrote:

Why would I not vote for a Conservative party that is doing a better job of delivering public services with significantly fewer resources? Welsh Labour are incompetent, complacent and, in many cases, corrupt.

If you think that Welsh Labour is more corrupt than the Tories then you really haven't been paying attention. The Tory corruption across the whole of the UK is far, far deeper, more entrenched and damaging than anything that the Senedd could even begin to contemplate. And how you can even pretend that they're delivering decent public services is quite beyond my comprehension.

If you keep believing the crap such as that Small Boats are the problem and Rwanda is the solution, swallow the myth of the Daily Mail being a newspaper and quietly turn a blind eye to everything else that's falling apart then I'm sure everything will seem to be just fine.

The Conservatives are delivering better public services than Welsh Labour.

Look up NHS waiting lists, A+E waiting times and PISA rankings if you want objective evidence of this.

If you want evidence of Welsh Labour corruption look up the NRW timber deals, the Green Man farm deal and meetings beforehand and the land sales prior to the Cardiff development plan.

The 1930s tropes are not just tired, they're positively exhausted, usually rolled out by those with no other argument to make.

You didn't address a single one of my points which undermine your sad attempt at a Godwin .

Well said, and I live in Wales, yes there are problems but the Tories are not the fix they calim to be!