Four cyclists fined as police force shares footage of group ride stopped for ignoring red light

I partially agree with this.  People are people, but:

... if I'd paid lots of money for an expensive machine - maybe a speedy one, especially one I'd want to show for my mates - and I knew that the chance of me getting stopped for any offense was minimal and the penalties insignificant, and that even if they had a video record I could just say it wasn't me - then ...
... I'd be describing being a driver of a motor vehicle as much as being a cyclist.

I think there are some modifiers of behaviour according to transport mode choice.  I'd expect that to be most significant for the prestige mode (driving).  Because driving is definitely bound up with "status" (and currently in many countries that's skewed towards "pushy, risk-taking men").

For some people being in a motor vehicle may make them proceed more carefully (don't want to "end up in court" or scratch my motor or even injure someone).  For many it seems that it makes them proceed less carefully (including illegally e.g. speeding, pavement driving, "amber gambling" AKA running stop signals etc.)  Humans quickly identify with their transport ("did you just hit me (my car)?").  Unfortunately when people have a common human reaction to a situation ("... I'll teach you a lesson!") the driver has forgotten they now have an extremely powerful (and potentially deadly) exoskeleton.

I would expect some cyclists to be a bit less careful about rules.  That's partly because cycling is more accessible so some could be children (but some will also be "advanced drivers" on the bike that day!).  Plus it's a more "casual" mode due to cycling being far less danger to everyone (hence no plates, testing, insurance requirements ...).

However I'd expect risky behaviour to be moderated by their awareness that cyclists are at risk of injury in any crash, in a way that e.g. motorists or bus passengers just aren't.

So in your first paragraph you condone arseholish behaviour Just because you might have a nice bike? That kinda makes it worse. Not only are you an arsehole you're conscious of the fact and still do it. 

You must have lost interest after skimming the first para.  Summarised - more likely entitled driver than entitled cyclist.

Longer: I expect there will be slightly different rates of encountering arsehole behaviour from users of different modes - especially in the UK - reasons in my first post.

I read what you wrote, but it pretty much agrees that the world is full of arseholes. Some drive, some cycle etc. you just over elaborate on the same points for no good reason 

Close, no cigar.

"The world is full of arseholes" = random, it's on you (the rider / driver / walker) to lookout, nothing else.

Arseholery varies (slightly) by mode = we can do something about it with targetted road design / policing (if police and politicos were minded to...)

A better harm reduction is to reduce the potential damage from the arseholes in the most deadly mode though e.g. by having less driving.

So many words. So little sense. 
 

btw, by having *fewer driving. 👍🏻

Smoggysteve wrote:

btw, by having *fewer driving. 👍🏻

You're assuming that he is using driving as a verb and therefore means having fewer people driving. In fact he is using driving as a gerund (noun form), as in the activity driving, and asking a reduction in the quantity of it, in which case "less" is perfectly correct. /pedantry

Yes.  But "...having fewer driving less" keeps everyone happy?

I was trying to avoid claxons of "they want to stop me driving!" - it's more that we need less journeys driven  overall!

Chris makes a lot of sense, actually. His posts are well considered, very often thoroughly backed up with relevant links, and I can't recall having read an incensiary or disparaging or insulting comment from him on here (which is not your case).

Totally agree.

You aren't doing yourself any favours with these ad hominen posts.

And I very much doubt the number of drivers is countable.

Smoggysteve wrote:

When will people just accept the world is full of idiots. Some drive, some cycle, not all drive, not all cycle. The mode of transport and their behaviour and not somehow intrinsically linked. One mode of transport doesn't make the someone act in a particular way. These people are arseholes 24/7 regardless of what they do 

And some would appear to be in the police force, how difficult is it to get the clip correct first time?

Beat me to it and with the same wording !
Still for the sensible folk not on twitterx

"The cycling trolls will find some other excuse, such as the cyclists only ran the red light because they were being pursued by a Dalek." !

Bang to rights, I'm afraid

But not quite as 'bang to rights' as the rider of PJ23 VMC, who got off scot-free

Road users can't be selective about which rules to follow

What you mean is cyclists can't be selective... I have shown below 3 motorists who decided not to bother with all this confusing 'traffic light' bureaucracy and the police do nothing about it 'because everyone does it'. I also show a motorist who decides to shun the MOT, insurance and VED bureaucracy who will also get away with it. So I'm not about to tolerate without complaint a notion which takes (so far unproven) cyclist RLJs more seriously than, say, an Audi towing a caravan through a red light at speed, so b***** off!

https://upride.cc/incident/t90jdt_audiwithcaravan_rljatspeed/

As Yossarian (I think) says in Catch-22:

What if everyone thought like that?

Then I'd be a damn' fool to think any other way

wtjs wrote:

Road users can't be selective about which rules to follow

What you mean is cyclists can't be selective... I have shown below 3 motorists who decided not to bother with all this confusing 'traffic light' bureaucracy and the police do nothing about it 'because everyone does it'. I also show a motorist who decides to shun the MOT, insurance and VED bureaucracy who will also get away with it. So I'm not about to tolerate without complaint a notion which takes (so far unproven) cyclist RLJs more seriously than, say, an Audi towing a caravan through a red light at speed, so b***** off!

https://upride.cc/incident/t90jdt_audiwithcaravan_rljatspeed/

As Yossarian (I think) says in Catch-22:

What if everyone thought like that?

Then I'd be a damn' fool to think any other way

This is still a very small sample size...four cyclists got fined, there's thousands who don't get fined on a daily basis. 

Can apply the same to motorists. 9 mile commute and 10 controlled junctions. There will be at least 3 motorists jump on amber and red at each junction. Have yet to see any pulled over due to the lack of cops about over the last year. Thats over 15000 drivers a year and that's only the ones I physically see on that particular route. 

And don't forget those motorists who do stop for a red and those in the queue who are on their phones...

giff77 wrote:

Can apply the same to motorists. 9 mile commute and 10 controlled junctions. There will be at least 3 motorists jump on amber and red at each junction. Have yet to see any pulled over due to the lack of cops about over the last year. Thats over 15000 drivers a year and that's only the ones I physically see on that particular route. 

Similar experience to my own - I've lived in three completely different areas over the last decade and those figures tally with my own.

That's great, and I agree!

...but what has this to do with road safety though (unless you've got a sure-fire way of preventing all those other people being dicks, and other well-known human deficiencies)?