Latest city introduces anti-cycling rules as controversial e-bike ban brought in

"Communities want action but officers are cautious and aware of the risks."
"In Cardiff, a [community] riot broke out in May after two teenagers died riding an electric motorbike [following police action]- a Sur-Ron."

The responsability for and solutions to these problems lie primarily with the parent/s of the offenders. There is no way the kids have access to these machines without their parent's connivance.

The "communities" must also harbour the knowledge of which families have these bikes, so the police ought not need to play cat and mouse to sieze the machines.

So much to unpack in this article but my main thought was:

How does the word "electric" change anything?

I've lived somewhere where for many years there have been kids riding illegally on scrambler bikes. Some of the bikes were also not road legal (no plates), some may have had plates.

There has been at least one death of someone *not on a motorbike* (which doesn't seem to have been mentioned in the article, though sadly it may happen).

I've watched the police have rings run round then on a couple of occasions in the middle of town, and a cyclists' (unpowered) bike get smashed into.

Nothing new. And - at least in England - I believe police do have powers to physically stop riders, albeit I understand they may be cautious about doing that.

Kids on motorbike is an issue - but how is the electric bike factor more than a buzzword here?

All true - the trouble for cyclists is the (perverse) linkage via the mischievous use of words. Language trammels thought. E-bikes ...

chrisonatrike wrote:

Kids on motorbike is an issue - but how is the electric bike factor more than a buzzword here?

I would imagine a significant factor in terms of lawbreakers is the lower maintenance required for an electric motorcycle and especially the fact that it can be refuelled at home rather than the rider being exposed to potential arrest and/or seizure by having to go to, and stop at, a petrol station. I think the proliferation has also been aided by a feeling (quite wrong, of course) amongst the riders and probably their parents that this isn't really breaking the law like having a petrol motorcycle without a plate, licence or insurance, it's only really a souped up bicycle.

I'm sure that is a factor. We may see *more* for the reasons you've given.

Also agree that sadly media and popular opinion is quite happy to lump EAPCs and electric motorbikes together, probably a symptom of the whole area being out of government control.

However it was already happening years back in Edinburgh on ICE bikes. As always there is stealing and joyriding of course - but there was a group regularly about breaking any number of laws riding dangerously using scrambler bikes*. A year or so back they even made a few raids into the centre of Edinburgh (another apology, tabloid language...)

Someone owned, maintained and fueled them...

So more "social issue we have had for ages, with newsworthy factor because new power source"?

* sorry - not knowledgeable in motor bikes / they went too fast to get models! Nor of course ages - but a) there were some small riders and b) there were some very young- looking lads hanging about for a go when they did displays on the roads around the neighbourhood...

I see they have changed the wording! Headline and opening paragraph now refer to e/motorbikes:

Quote:

Illegal e-motorbike riders 'goading' police, force says.
Electric motorbikes may be an increasingly popular way to get around but have been blamed for terrorising neighbourhoods with anti-social and dangerous riding.

That's good – maybe the powers that be at the BBC read road.cc!

Crankwinder wrote:

Here's a taste of the future, if those who argue for an increase in the power and speed limits get their way. E-bike bans will proliferate, as is already happening in USA, where e-bikes are allowed three times as much power up to 20mph. The only way to fight these bans is to stick to our European 250W & 15.5mph limits and encourage rigorous enforcement of them.

I find it ironic that one of the smallest and lightest vehicles on the roads are subject to so much power restriction and demand for legislation (likely due to the lack of insurance and registrationi). Even the smallest car has no such power restriction and to my mind the biggest issue is that car drivers can drive without paying any attention to what they are doing, whereas two-wheeled vehicles require a minimum amount of focus to keep your balance.

"You were going quite a speed sir. We'll need to check what category of legs you're licensed to operate."

Same as bikes - it's because "in pedestrian space". And that is only the case because we don't believe in* space for cycling. Which - just like motor vehicles - needs to be (very clearly) separated from the footway.

What's that? No, cars drive on the *road* so obviously there aren't the same concerns ... (and we've learned to stay out of the way of cars)

EDIT obviously the above is ironic but clearly the thought process for many. Also looks like a balrog has reappeared in some other threads, oh well.

* Or can't find space / money for it - which actually is the same thing; ultimately these are justifications given for a choice or belief.

hawkinspeter wrote:

two-wheeled vehicles require a minimum amount of focus to keep your balance

"...you may think that the human rider is what keeps a bicycle balanced..."
https://www.wtamu.edu/~cbaird/sq/mobile/2013/04/18/what-keeps-a-bicycle-...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9ewqeheLL_I

barbarus wrote:

Here's a few hot takes from me: As we go into the "post car" era...

WHOA!  Missed that - what is this?  When is that going to happen?

I mean - they've been working on reducing motor traffic in the Netherlands for (insert any amount of time but the late 70s was a turning point) years and while cycling is mainstream and they've got great integrated public transport they're certainly nowhere near "post car".

When I say post car, I mean that the traditional ICE car in cities is on borrowed time. It might be 50 years, it might be 10. But it will happen.

Well that sounds like "we're going to have everything fixed by (variable length of time but certainly after I'm no longer in charge and probably when I'm safely dead)".

Isn't the traditional ICE car being replaced though - by the radically different electric car?  It's much more space efficient is so light it does no road damage It has zero emissions emits a bit less, elsewhere (apart from particulates from tyres and braking)!  It is much more pleasant to be around isn't smoky and totally silent is (possibly worryingly) quiet when starting off but has the same road noise when up to speed.

I'm sure the car manufacturers would prefer to go on making the same vehicles, but I don't think their shareholders are quavering yet.

Hey, I didn't say what I would like to see, just what I think will probably happen. But like I said, it's a hot take, so probably I will be entirely wrong! I have a woeful record of clairvoyance.

I hope I was just debating your prediction, not suggesting you desired a particular outcome.  Likely we're all mistaken - if only because something completely unexpected happens and totally reframes debates.

Given cars have bulked up (some debate about this but even in the last decade it seems there is evidence) I suspect that we'll see the same with other private transport e.g. bikes - if they become more popular.

As you point out people have been raised on cars which have ever more features (weather protection, "safety" and entertainment, and the bigger motors to shift the greater weight with more feeling of dispatch).  Firms will obviously seek to meet (and encourage) these wants, even in another platform.  And the firms have grown for generations by selling cars (as has the built environment) so are likely to produce alternatives shaped by them.

In the UK though unless we sort out environments which feel safe and are convenient to cycle in I don't see much changing.  And that process could certainly be done faster in the UK (e.g. we could start!) but is not rapid.

Crashb69 wrote:

I think the main thing people have forgotten they are cycling on pavements so enforce NO cycling for all bikes and not just ebikes. We don't belong on pavements stick to cycle paths or the road simple.

You've grabbed the wrong end of the stick pretty solidly there, this has nothing to do with cycling on pavements, it's about cycling in pedestrianised areas, i.e. roads that have been closed to motor vehicles. In this case all cyclists were permitted in these areas but now it's been limited to unpowered only. 100% legal and widely permitted in many areas around the UK.

Pedal those squares wrote:

Is there anything that allows them to confiscate illigal ebikes?

It would only take a few weekends and the illigal ebikes would stop going through the centre.

Most illegal ebikes are very easy to spot...not all but most.

The delivery drivers will soon put the word out to each other to NOT go around the city centre.

Of course - they require insurance and on't have any is the usual one.

This is a police power, and one alleged reason for change is stretched resources.

Pedal those squares wrote:

Is there anything that allows them to confiscate illigal ebikes?

It would only take a few weekends and the illigal ebikes would stop going through the centre.

Yes there is, and the same applies to escooters: in 2021 the Met police confiscated nearly 4000 illegal escooters in London. As you say, it wouldn't take much to get the message out there that people with illegal machines would be in trouble, unfortunately the police don't seem to be interested except when involved in specific targeted operations. There's a Pret A Manger at the end of my road which usually has half a dozen Deliveroo riders waiting outside (as a sidenote, when did we become so lazy as a society that it's acceptable to pay somebody else to go and get coffee and sandwiches for you?), all with blatantly illegal ebikes with the tell-tale dinnerplate-sized hub motors. Throughout the day police officers stop to pick up coffee and snacks, walking past this display of illegal machines without ever stopping to speak to the riders, let alone confiscate their bikes.

Fallacy piled on false assumption piled on utter stupidity.

Do you propose banning all ebikes in future? FFS 🙄

And no, I don't have one BTW.

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You might have a point.

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Pity you couldn't make it in a civilised manner.

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Fallacy, false assumption, stupidity.
If that is the case, surely you can point them out, right? Now it's just you talking tough.

Also, no, I do not propose banning all ebikes. Don't put words in my mouth ('FFS'). I know damn well they are not going away. I'm just voicing my concerns about them.