Shand Stoater road bike

Re the reviewer's comment on the very short head tube - maybe you're not taking into account the massive clearance on the fork, which raises the bar height considerably.

Not that it has any relevance to use on bicycles, but timing chains did not go out in the 1970s. VW, Honda, Mazda and others use them.

There are pros and cons both ways in cars and it probably has little transferable meaning for bikes.

I saw a Stoater in the wild for the first time at a CX race yesterday, and in amongst some very nice bikes (this was before they were all caked in mud and sand) it really stood out as a gorgeous bike.

I've seen several Shand bikes in the flesh, and agree with the comments here that the frames really are works of beauty. In all cases the owners have been very pleased with them. I've also visited the workshop and found Steven and Russ to be both really nice guys.
For me my only concern about the Stoater is that it's a bit too nice to take off road, and use on the crappy roads in the winter.
However, for long tours / high mileage commutes it would be great to have one.
For Audax and general road riding I hoping to be able get one of their Slinky Malinky frames at some point in the distant future.

I have to say this is a lovely bike but as some have already mentioned it's a lot of dollar for the one bike, I have a Giant carbon hard tail mtb and a boardman CX both of which I love. Maintenance is not that big a deal and they are both great bikes, and I would add have only cost me approx 2.5k which is one big one shy of the stoater.

If I had unlimited funds I might be tempted but at that price point you open up to other bespoke builders like Feather Donhou et al.

Another point which was picked up on was the genesis brand for those wanting steel, they are superb bikes and have been piloted around the world by folk and a variety of other places in between.

I too am not that keen on the colour.

@Airzound

thanks for your updated information - I am certainly glad that companies have got the Gates belt drive to work with the new belt style, and of course I know about Rohloff hub reliability.

But, the 2 years of cr*p we went through with angry customers buying the Trek Soho and similar Gates equipped affordable bikes, which were sold as "super reliable" by the manufacturers and Gates, meant my comments were certainly valid from that time period.

Your comments about cleaning and lubing chain based derailleur systems is somewhat at odds with my experiences; I commute 300km a week on my bikes as well as regular mountain biking in bad weather conditions, I've been riding mountain bikes on the dirt in the UK since 1986.

I cannot say its ever been an issue in terms of cleaning, lubing or wear and tear, that has made me want to get a hub gear or belt drive bike?

But as you said, I am not much of a mechanic...despite having been the workshop manager for Sigma Sport and several Specialized concept stores, flagship Evans stores, etc

Do you really leave your bike caked in crud though just because you don't have to clean the drive train?
I clean my wet weather bike after every ride, not just the drive train, the whole thing, it takes about 2 minutes to brush some Morgan blue on the chain and derailleurs then wash off with water after cleaning wheels and frame.
I can see the attraction for touring because you may not have the facilities to clean but for general use/commuting I don't see there's a massive benefit.
I guess there's less wear an tear so no chains/derailleurs/bottom brackets to replace as frequently but I guess the Rolhoff needs servicing periodically? What are the costs here?

Saw them at the recent Bespoked and they are things of understated beauty. I take the point about multiple cheaper bikes (i do that too) but these bikes are really nice to look at. IF I was in the super high mileage adventure club I would grab one. IF I was loaded I would have one 'just because'. Most of us sadly will just not be able to afford it. The rohlhoff argument was been won already for that specific audience it's a no brainer. For most of us it's overkill and a fixie is a better solution with similar benefits on the maintenance front (assuming you live on the flat!).

Disclaimer: I've had a Shand Stoater for 23 months and ridden over 5,000 miles on it.

I use it for daily transport, for pleasure rides, for day rides, for touring. Mostly on-road but with some off road being planned eg http://bearbonesbikepacking.co.uk/WelshRideThing/ that will be part of a 1,500 mile tour between a variety of courses/events during a 3 month sabbatical next year.

It is not my only bike. I also regularly use a Whyte RD7 Suffolk (for faster group rides and day rides), a Bullitt Cargobike (for work, shopping etc) and a Pearson fixie (for fun and exercise).

My Stoater is a slightly older model. I wanted a very specific specification (focused on low maintenance, high reliability and practicality) Steven and Russ were able to build for me. It included Rohloff and Gates Belt drive plus as many British components as possible (eg Hope, Middleburn and Use). I also have Jones Loop H-Bar rather than drop bars and lots of nice electronics.

I mention all that to give my responses some context.

Seems to me that in the UK there is a common undervaluing of versatility, low maintenance, high reliability and local.

The combination of these makes for a specific category of bike.

The comments reflect a lack of understanding around how big a game change it is to have a bike that you can use everyday throughout the year without having to clean, maintain, repair or replace the drivetrain.

A good example was the Strava Rapha Festive 500 Challenge at the end of 2012 See http://42bikes.warnock.me.uk/2013/01/02/strava-rapha-festive-500-challen...

The points about the "additional cost of the maintenance a derailleur system will occasionally need" are way off the mark. Yes I have used plenty of derailleur systems, look at my Trek after completing LEJoG in the summer of 2012 http://42bikes.warnock.me.uk/2012/07/22/lejog-bike-recovery/

While I have had one free belt replacement since the bike has been fully dialled in there have been no issues with the belt at all and it is a delight to have a bike that is silent, can be ridden in a suit (without trouser clips) and needs no chain cleaning and oiling.

I continue to be delighted with my Stoater and am looking forward with excitement to my 1,500 mile sabbatical tour next year. Of course by then I'll have put in a few more 1,000's of reliable miles.

For all the naysayers you fundamentally miss the point of the bike. If you ride high mileages for your commute or are doing a RTW tour then this bike is the one. If you like the chore of regularly cleaning and re-lubing a filthy dirty open chain deraillieur transmission then this bike is NOT for you. Move along.

@Hampstead_Bandit comparing this bike to the Trek Soho you are talking out your behind. You can't be much of a mechanic if you don't know how good the Rohloff hub is or about Gates' drive belts systems.The Stoater uses the 14 speed Rohlofff hub which is second to none in the world of internal hub gears which many many RTW cyclists opt for as it is so robust and reliable. Rohloff's customer service is also brilliant. Their hub costs approx £1k if you buy it stand alone, it is far far better than a crummy Shimano Nexus or Alfine hub that Trek used on the Soho. The Soho used a cheap massed produced frame which suffered alignment problems where as the Shand Stoater is a hand built 853 frame. Chalk and cheese. And also the Gates belt used on the Stoater is the much more recent CDX version which does NOT come off as it has a central groove in the belt which the front and rear sprockets lock into unlike the earlier CDC belts as used by Trek on the Soho if I am right. The wear of rear sprockets was an issue with very early Gates CDC belt drive systems as fitted to bikes such as the Trek Soho which used either the Nexus or Alfine hubs. The belt was liable to slipping off if not correctly aligned as you correctly state, but these problems do NOT affect the Stoater with Rohloff hub which uses the Gates/Rohloff front and rear CDX sprockets for the corresponding CDX belt NOT the CDC system which had problems. The Trek Soho is a massed produced cheap bike which was not particularly good. It even had a cable drum front brake iirc. How crap is that! This is 2014 not 1934. In comparison the Trek Soho is a tired old Trabant compared to the Shand Stoater which is a BMW M5. If Gates' belt drive is so bad why has practically every single car in the last 30-40 years been fitted with a cam belt? Because they are strong and durable. The only additional thing I would like to see is a fully enclosed belt cover as per car cam belt covers but for bicycles. Car timing chains went out in the 1970s except with BL cars which continued to use them in the Leyland Mini and all their other crap cars they used to make. They were noisy, inefficient and wore out too quickly - crap longevity. A belt can spin at a much higher speed and doesn't need lubrication so lasts much longer.

The Stoater is a hand built thoroughbred, that is why it is has a £3.5k price tag although the more you think about it more suited and better value for everyday riding it is than a similar£3.5k plastic wannabe road bike. Although it costs a lot more than a cheaper massed produced factory bike you get what you pay for and the bike is definitely of exceptional quality and low on maintenance go anywhere type of bike. I am sick to death of cleaning and re-lubing a deraillieur drive chain as they are only suited to dry and sunny weather which the UK has very little of so whether riding a high mileage commute or on a world tour in the back of beyond you don't want the hassle of keeping a deraillieur system running sweetly, so the Shand Stoater is top on my list of dream bikes.

Just because the Stoater has a belt drive doesn't mean you can let it get covered in crud and crap as you would a chain. In fact running either belt or chain on a Rohloff hub I would definitely have a fully enclosed belt/chain guard to protect and keep either clean just like those used by Pashley or Dutch commuter bikes. And adjustment and tensioning of the belt is a piece of piss on the Stoater as it has vertical drops and an eccentric bottom bracket. Problems arise when the frame has horizontal rear drop outs keeping the axle and belt line dead true. But with the CDX belt system it is a lot more forgiving than the older inferior CDC belt drive system.

Also you can now get rapid fire shifters (sold by Tout Terrain) for the Rohloff hub so could have the Shand Stoater as a flat bar version with bar ends.

http://bikefix.co.uk/cinq5-rohloff-shifter

Other similar bikes to the Shand Stoater are the Co-Motion Americano or a Tout Terrain Fifth Avenue GT both with Rohloff hubs and belt drive. There is also the Milk Bike RDA and Genesis Day One but they use the much cheaper and lower quality Shimano Alfine hub and the frames are much cheaper and lower quality than the Stoater's 853.

IIRC Mark Beaumont rode a Santos Travell Master with a Rohloff hub and Gates belt drive on his record breaking RTW ride a few years ago. He had no problems with it.

You makes your choice and pays your money. This is one bike I would love in my stable.

Finally road.cc review a bike that is low maintenance, practical and suited to everyday riding what ever the weather. They only did a part test as the other reason for buying this bike is touring which means carrying a full set of panniers and bar bag. Why haven't they tested it carrying luggage as this is also what it is made to do? This is an epic fail. And why not 5 stars? However I shall now go and lie down in a darkened room as this has been far too much excitement all at once.

Why is it Bianchi coloured?

Probably worth comparing the Rohloff’s 526% range with typical MTB drivetrains as they offer a closer comparison:

Using Shimano MTB components, with 700x32
1) 44/32/22 with 11/28 = 509%, 90rpm = 5.6mph
2) 44/32/22 with 11/30 = 545%, 90rpm = 5.3mph
3) 44/32/22 with 11/32 = 581%, 90rpm = 4.9mph
4) 44/32/22 with 11/34 = 618%, 90rpm = 4.6mph

This shows that Rohloff is a tad short of the range of a mountain triple.

By mixing trekking and MTB sizes it is possible to get much bigger ranges than the Rohloff:
5) 48/xx/22 with 11/32 = 634%, 90rpm = 4.9mph
6) 48/xx/22 with 11/34 = 674%, 90rpm = 4.6mph
where xx = 32 or 36

For adventure touring the gear maintenance thing kind of starts to make sense, but you could carry more chains, have a more spokes in the rear wheel (Rohloff only available with 32), and still have less weight, a more efficient drive, and a lot more gear range. And if the whole thing gets stolen, it won’t be quite as devastating.

Maybe it is one of those things for which you can only be convinced by having done an expedition on one.

I don't know much about belt drive bikes and how good the drivetrain is, but the frame looks great quality and the geometry looks speedy and fun.

I appreciate that the article recognised the limitations; my comment was more general than that. In a world of specific choice with regard to bicycles, the need for a do-it-all type of bike is perhaps questionable, taking finance, space, wife etc., into account.

@crikey

you make a valid point about Gates belt drives - I've worked as a mechanic for a couple of shops that sold Trek Soho and other bikes with belt drives and we had nothing but trouble with durability of both the belt itself, and more importantly the drivetrain components - specifically the rear cog, the freehub and the bottom bracket. It got so bad the bikes started arriving with a set of spares to convert the entire bike to bushingless chain drive.

Belt tension on the Gates was critical - there is actually a belt tension tool to set it up properly, but most shops don't have it, and consumers certainly don't have that tool to reset the belt after getting a puncture and taking off the back wheel!

Too loose and the belt 'ratchets' under power (slips over rear cog paddles), too tight and the tension quickly ruins the freehub mechanism and bottom bracket bearings. The aluminium alloy rear cog also quickly disintegrated against the steel freehub body of most hubs, Trek had to supply a hybrid cog with steel core and aluminium outer to get around this issue. Seen many splits belts too, and they are not cheap

Chainline also has to be spot-on, otherwise the belt "crabs" (continually tried to walk sideways off the rear cog and front cog meaning its often rubbing against the front cog guard.

Belts are really a solution to a problem that never existed?

There are documented issues with the longevity of belt drives under heavy usage; I'd always opt for a chain and derailleur system for ease of replacement.